Realtors – Trust Growing Your Business to the University of Lending – Angel Oak Home Loans!

Realtors – Trust Growing Your Business to the University of Lending – Angel Oak Home Loans!

How does a Realtor stand out and beat the competition in today’s fierce market? Watch the latest Your Mortgage Matters podcast hosted by Angel Oak’s Michael Chabot. He is joined by veteran expert Licensed Branch Manager of Angel Oak Richard Staley and a highly accomplished Realtor Marybeth Henderson. Marybeth is a broker and owner of City Homes Realty in Atlanta as well as a leader in the real estate industry. This is a great episode for any seasoned Realtor looking to add volume or a new Realtor trying to differentiate themselves in a saturated market.

They talk about the market, inventory, building supply shortages, what to do and what not to do and MORE! Watch now.

How does a Realtor stand out and beat the competition in today’s fierce market? Watch the latest Your Mortgage Matters podcast hosted by Angel Oak’s Michael Chabot. He is joined by veteran expert Licensed Branch Manager of Angel Oak Richard Staley and a highly accomplished Realtor Marybeth Henderson. Marybeth is a broker and owner of City Homes Realty in Atlanta as well as a leader in the real estate industry. This is a great episode for any seasoned Realtor looking to add volume or a new Realtor trying to differentiate themselves in a saturated market.

They talk about the market, inventory, building supply shortages, what to do and what not to do and MORE! Watch now.

Michael Chabot
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Your Mortgage Matters brought to you by Angel Oak Home Loans. I’m your host Michael Chabot. It’s fierce out there for realtors today. There’s a great accomplished Realtor in every market. They know their stuff, the market neighborhoods comps. They have stellar reputations. Homebuyers truly have amazing choices. And all those realtors are vying for their business all going after the same group of people. So today’s episode How does a realtor set themselves apart in today’s market by expanding the field of clients they’re working with. On today’s episode, our guests will discuss how they are providing solutions for this underserved section of the market. So our first guest Richard Staley, he’s licensed branch manager with Angel Oak Home Loans, his over 25 years of experience in the home lending industry. Richard is a veteran expert in this space with a comprehensive, customer focused approach that has garnered him much success throughout his career. Richard is consistently recognized as a top producer at Angel Oak Home Loans, and is recognized as one of the top 200 originators in mortgage originator magazine. Mary Beth Henderson is the broker owner of City Homes Realty. City Homes Realty represents the region’s finest properties with exceptional skill using the most innovative technologies currently available. Mary Beth is a leader in the Atlanta real estate industry. As a business owner for many years, her amiable approach to business is a natural instinct. And the thing she enjoys most is educating her clients, Mary Beth and Richard, welcome to the show.

Marybeth Henderson
Thank you.

Richard Staley
Thanks for having us.

Michael Chabot
It’s my pleasure. So this is going to be fun because you guys currently are working together. Right Mary Beth, your realtor Richard’s a loan officer and you guys are out there working together. It really is a competitive market out there, isn’t it? Mary Beth?

Marybeth Henderson
Extremely competitive 21 years doing this the most competitive market I’ve seen.

Michael Chabot
And it’s not only competitive as far as consumers writing offers on homes and in such but I would imagine it’s just as competitive as a real estate agent and or broker, you know, vying for that business. There’s more agents in their listings. Little bit of a problem. Wow. Wow. Okay, just so for our listeners, so your your business is based in the Atlanta metro area. Is that correct?

Marybeth Henderson
Yes. Yeah. All the way from the city to the suburbs.

Michael Chabot
Wonderful. And, Richard, same for you. So you’re based out of Atlanta, correct? I am. And so for you on the lending side, you would agree that it’s probably especially for buyers, one of the most competitive markets that we’ve ever seen?

Richard Staley
Oh, yeah, I mean, to my best point earlier, I mean, I’ve been doing it for almost my 30th year, and I’ve never seen a market really like this for the last year and a half. But it’s seems to get tougher and tougher as we go on.

Michael Chabot
I agree. So let’s jump into some of our questions. So as we said, in your bio, Richard, you’re one of the most successful loan officers at Angel Oak. Just give us a little background on how you got started and how you’ve grown your business to where it is.

Richard Staley
Well when I came to Angel Oak, I was in the manager role. And then I looked back about four years ago and decided I was most happy when I was out with realtors and buyers and all that. So I moved to sales full time, four years ago. And, and so I’ve been in there ever since. And it’s a blessing to get back out. And, you know, been using our non QM products to break down doors and between real estate agent companies and builders and give clients the dream of homeownership, which, you know, a lot of people self employed, you know, struggle in that area.

Michael Chabot
Yeah. And so what we always like to say is, you know, I, I interviewed one of the executives from Angel Oak, and we talked about non QM and how we wish there was a better word, but basically means non Qualified Mortgage, it just falls outside of that Fannie, Freddie type box. Right. So, Mary Beth, I want to first of all, thank you for joining us, you know, on this episode, I know you’re super busy. Tell us how you got started in the business, how you started working with Richard, and how he’s helped grow your business with some of these products that are outside the norm.

Marybeth Henderson
Well, there’s so tie exactly to what you said about the education piece. In my early 20s, I went out on Sunday afternoon, walked up to new construction builder bought a house had a lender that explained nothing got horribly taken advantage of literally could not afford the home. absolutely could not afford it had no taxes. escrowed no anything. So first year, here comes the tax bill, have to borrow the money from mom and dad to pay those taxes. So for many years, I’ve worked in the business world and import export business, left that career didn’t work for a while and thought what something I’ve always wanted to do. So the fire was lit to never let somebody get taken advantage of like I mean, I literally couldn’t buy shoes couldn’t couldn’t afford food for almost three years. And it took five years to get out of that house. So I became an agent. And shortly after that time period, I was blessed to reconnect with Richard Staley. And from that point, I knew he was the right hand man for my team, because, again, his passion was to serve. And, you know, I can give some fabulous examples of our $90,000 little condo buyer years ago, who each of us have probably close 13 deals well into the millions of dollars from that one, listening to that person who thought they couldn’t afford a home. And it was 90,000. And were shocked that an agent would take the time and that her lender would answer the phone calls. So that’s how I got into it. And like I said, I was very, very selective with who was on my team. And I’ll talk more about that a little bit. But why Richard is the right hand, man and why the Angel Oak team, I’m very proud to be affiliated with it.

Michael Chabot
I love it. Great answer. There’s so many things we could do from there. Yep, make some notes to come back to. So, Richard, you know, I have some questions. So what has been your approach to helping you know realtors, your realtor partners, such as Mary Beth, to understand the value of these non QM products, these products that are outside of the agencies?

Richard Staley
Well, again, going back four years ago, you know, getting back into the market, you you know, you don’t just show up one day in real estate agents love you and customers love, you actually have to have a value proposition. And so when I was considering getting back on the street full time, you mean, I’m very familiar with Angel Oak been here many years from the management side. And I was like, you know, we have this unique value proposition that really at the time, no one has now we’ve had a lot of copycat companies that come out. And they have since moved away from it, after we went through our little beginning of our little pandemic here, or not Little Big pandemic, but so what I realized is I can go on the market, and I can add more value than just the 30 year fixed conventional loan or the FHA loan. And I’ve really structured myself as a self employment expert, and because for whatever reasons, loan officers struggle with a set of tax returns, but when you are able to understand and read tax returns, and know that example, they may make a lot of money, but what they report is not a lot to qualify for a home loan, that I can bring this this value proposition or bank statement loan, whether depositing you know, hundreds of 1000s of dollars allows them to qualify and really help an agent sell a home thus receive a commission does receive a happy client. And, and honestly, that’s really what I’ve leaned on. And you know, once you get in on the difficult loans, and you do a great job, you typically show up and you get the the non difficult loans and continue to grow the business. So I would say, you know, for me, my I’ve had 100% growth, year over year, four years in a row now. And it’s not dude, because I’m just doing a conventional loan it’s doing because we’re adding value with our products. We’re delivering, we’re closing on time, we say yes, fast, we say no faster. And, you know, we get it done. And and that’s that’s, that’s I’m just here to, you know, serve and get it done. I’m not here to upset people that they can’t buy a home, you know, a day before closing?

Michael Chabot
Yeah, great answer, by the way. Which leads me into so we talked about in the intro of the show, underserved market and really self employed borrowers are an underserved portion of the market and correct. And so that my question then goes to Mary Beth, and since you’ve been working with Richard and having these products that fill that need, have you changed the way you prospect to homebuyers Do you actively prospect for self employed into a real estate investors?

Marybeth Henderson
I do both. One thing that I did a few years ago and it’s been super beneficial. I have joined several networking groups. And of course, most of all the people that come to the networking group on their own small business. So you’re able to number one, they love and respect you and become a fan of you because they understand what you’re doing. And they’re always nervous, and they’re very nervous to be able to say and raise their hand, you know, can I get a loan so it makes it very easy to pick up people that are loyal fans, and then to have them talk to Richard when I can say you know, I’ve got lots of experience with self employed so I have it was a great market to tap into. And I found like I said it’s business networking we meet in the mornings been excellent for both our businesses. And then my investor group I have so enjoyed working with because our market while we still have short inventory, and our prices for those of us that are natives do seem high. They’re really not compared to the rest of the world. And I’ve had a lot of international buyers who Richard’s been able to help and I’ve had other investors And he’s been able to close, based off of their, you know, assets and income and portfolios. And they’re moving from all over the country, California, Phoenix, those are two of our biggies that we work those markets. So I love it because they tend to have everything in order, and they make quick decisions. And they, again, back to that education side, they listen to what I’m telling them. They know that if my money’s not going there, there’s isn’t either. And I have been able to really, really work I have 10 that I actively do and work with all the time. So super happy to serve that market.

Michael Chabot
Great answer. So a question for both of you. And Marybeth, I’ll ask it to you first is in regard to self employed, I think you would agree and I think you’ve touched on it. We’re seeing a huge growth in self employed borrowers. There’s a new term called the gig economy, right? Yeah. So tell us in your area, and you don’t have to be exact, but I’m guessing you’re just seeing a much larger Oh, percentage, excuse me of self employed buyers?

Marybeth Henderson
Yeah, tremendously. So and it’s actually fun. Another passion that I’ve always had, as well as Richards, we love serving that millennial buyer. And I can remember years ago, when my career an agent had been in the business for years, literally called me on a sales meeting and was like, You are so dumb, why would you want to waste your time on those people. And I’ve always had the exact opposite experience as well as Richard has working with my clients. And so the fun now is watching a lot of them start their own businesses. So we’ve got clothing boutiques, we have Chiropractors, we have I have another one that’s opened up a restaurant. And so all kinds of great fun things, you know, internet businesses. So again, it was that listening. And, and, and listening to really what they needed. Which again, Richard and I could trace this back and probably show you five to 10, to 20 to 30, deep of those people that nobody wanted to serve, and we thought it was great. We like those people.

Michael Chabot
I’ll put the same question to you. And then I’ll ask you just something else. But please go ahead.

Richard Staley
You mean self employed borrowers?

Michael Chabot
Yeah, self employed borrowers that segment growing.

Richard Staley
You know, again, just being in the business for a long time, I look back on going got everybody self employed. And I always tell my boys as they grow up, you can’t be the man when you work for the man. So and what, and what we’re seeing is these these two Marybeth, we have a, the millennials weren’t, we just do tons of them. And, you know, they had this idea, they start this business and they buy this little house, and that business becomes a giant, and they buy the next house and next house and next house. For self employed bars. I’ve me personally 80% of my business is probably self employed today. And you know, it’s interesting to you just a funny story around that. So I did lung for a realtor. So we did a 1099 loan, which is one of our non QM products. And we went to closing and I said, Tell me, John, how do you get my name again? How do we connected someone refer you to meet? And he said, No, you are on our intranet or internal intranet board as the self employed expert. And, you know, I thought about that. And for First of all, they have their own in house mortgage company, and they push their own in house mortgage company, but yet, I’m on their internal board. And I think what Mary Beth and I have done, the city of Atlanta is we become experts. And we’re getting known for that. So, you know, I think I’m 10 calls a week are probably saying, Hey, I got your name from this person, which I don’t know, that says you’re the self employed person. So um, so we also share Mary Beth and I and why we’re such a good partner, we share a coach together, we have the same coach to a company out of California. And our coach tells us, you know, that is a testimonial to what you need to do to build your business to the next 100%. And so, actually, today, that first communication went out house, we saw it yet Mary Beth, but that email came out on success stories. So self employed, said to me, I’m not scared of a tax return.

Michael Chabot
So my question to you was, most loan officers are they they look at the tax return only and if the numbers don’t work, they’re done. They kind of push it off to the side and say, Thanks, no, thanks. And I think what most people don’t understand is tax returns really aren’t meant to show your income. Yeah, they’re really meant to show what your tax obligation is right. And just as an industry we’ve adopted the tax return as something to show show income with so very quickly just talk about some of the products that we have as an alternative to using you know, traditional you know, pay stubs, W TOS Endor tax returns.

Richard Staley
Well, I’m firstly I design first of all, before we even get into the nitty gritties. I tell me your story. So I always say tell me your story. What do you do for a living? We just had a gentleman he’s on fire He’s He’s has an online coffee business now you wouldn’t think that that was a very popular but it is organic. It has it doesn’t have this doesn’t have that has this has that that people like. And so we get to the conversation and he’s been self employed for three years. And so tell me about NASA. Okay, awesome. Congratulations, I’m sure you’ve been killing it with all the online stuff go, it’s been outstanding, and I go, Well, how’s your taxable income? It goes, well, I’ve, I’ve lost us. And, of course, you know, triggers me that says, well, that moves it to, to our non QM products. And so so we just did a simple bank statement, business bank statement, Angela was putting a million dollars a year into his business account, we take an expense ratio, and he qualified for, you know, 800,000 our home and put a nice amount of money down. So the the non tax term personal bank statement loans, a lot of 1099 is another really great product we carry in our arsenal. And that’s to say a real estate agent, they have made, you know, 150 and 152 years in a row are in that situation, but their tax turns do not show that income, you take 115 plus two, so 300,000 is example, take an expense ratio 50% or so and divided by 24 months, and they qualify for a home. So that’s called a texture artist attend on Yamo. So we have four or five self employed products that can really help people out.

Michael Chabot
And we’re not allowed to talk about interest rates on this show. But what we can say is that those products have interest rates that are palatable, I think I would say back in the day and a lot, I think a thing that a misnomer for a lot of people, they think oh, if I go that direction, I’m going to have a super high interest rate. That’s not the case.

Richard Staley
No, and you know, it’s if you do get it, this is where I look at it. People are more excited to getting a home than what the rate is honestly. Agreed. And so if we could do interest only on these loans, which is super. So I rarely run into the client that that is extremely ecstatic they can get a loan and be challenged. You know the rates?

Michael Chabot
Yep. Yep. So Mary Beth, back to you. I want to talk about the market in the Atlanta metro area. What are the trends you’re seeing in the market, as far as I know, you’ve talked about inventories tight, but just give us a snapshot of what the market looks like today for buyers and for sellers.

Marybeth Henderson
Okay, so and also, even from new constructs inside, our inventory is tight is going to remain tight. But on the resale side, we are seeing prices cooling. And instead of 10 offers I’m seeing four offers. So it’s it’s kind of good because I feel like we’re getting a little normalization coming. And I do think we’re going to see some additional inventory coming in 2022. But again, I don’t see prices really going down. But we’re not going to have as rapid of an increase like last month, I think it was only 8% or so it wasn’t anything crazy. Nothing like March and May.

Michael Chabot
But it’s still a healthy real estate market.

Marybeth Henderson
Super super healthy. I mean, it honestly is very healthy. And I truly seeing much more normalization. Which is fun.

Michael Chabot
So with your buyers, how are you helping them in this competitive market, get their offers accepted?

Marybeth Henderson
I have a bunch of ways but I will tell you the number one thing that I tell them first is we’re not going to do just a pre qual letter that does no one any good. I want Richard to have them ready to go the loan is in place ready to rock and roll. We, of course send all that documentation with their offer. Then Richard are one of the team picks up the phone I’ve cued him up that the offers in this is this is the agent pick up the phone and call. He does that. And then also just writing a clean offer, you know, you can’t ask for too much, but I won’t let them really get into the foolishness of waiving all contingencies. And of course, that speaks back to my heart because it’s it’s I’m not letting somebody getting taken advantage of so, you know, I don’t want to buy a house. And then we discover you know, three weeks later behind a hidden door in the attic is a you know, a cesspool or so. So, but it comes down to educating them about the market. So we’re making a strong offer, and really the loan in place and the full team in place. And I do have one other thing that’s been very, very beneficial. Our home inspection team is fantastic. And we were able to work with them this year to where they would either go with us on the showing or they would go before the showing and they are inspecting just the major mechanicals of the home. It’s not a full inspection. But going into it we’ve already had the house inspected and that helped as well gave the seller confidence that we weren’t going to back out. Yeah, it was dying. EMIC and gave the buyers confidence that nothing, you know, serious is wrong. So that was a, the the tool of having the lender present and the inspection out of the way was huge. So that was our our secret sauce this year.

Michael Chabot
That’s a great answer. And I love that doing the two in the mechanical portion of the inspection up front. That’s great. I haven’t heard of anybody else doing Yeah,

Marybeth Henderson
yeah, roof. Yeah, roof foam, ball, mechanicals, obviously crawlspace basement, and all of that now they’re not checking, you know, doorknobs they weren’t checking that. But but that was just monumentous. And again, the funniest part. We were in a situation on one deal with 22 offers. And the agent called me and we were not the highest bidder. But she looked down and she saw Richards name. And at the same time he was calling because she was familiar with Richard and Angel Oak as well. So that that the inspection and the and the secret sauce of the lender. I need to bottle it up.

Michael Chabot
You know, that brings up a good, that brings up something really important before I asked my next question, which is for buyers out there listening to this and other real estate agents, it really truly makes a difference in this market, the reputation of the lender that you’re working with, and 100% performed previously. Right?

Marybeth Henderson
It I cannot express it enough. And Richard has done such a great job of positioning himself in the market all throughout the years. I mean, this is you know, we’ve we’ve got a long history here, but numerous times this year, and again, the kids had no chance almost getting that house, it was top of their budget, originally everything and then she called and she started laughing and she said I can’t believe it. That you know Richard Staley? Yes, yes, I do. So it was great,

Michael Chabot
which is just a tribute to your Richard your hard work your dedication to professionalism. And it’s, it truly does make a difference. I would imagine Marybeth if you if you get an offer on a listing with an agent with a loan officer, maybe that you don’t know, or maybe from a big box, you know, retail bank or something, you probably are a little hesitant, right? Because you don’t know if they’re going to be able to perform.

Marybeth Henderson
Exactly, or if they’re going to answer the phone. I mean, that’s the biggest thing, that and I have a team of agents that work for me. And one of the things that I teach them at our very first trainings, is the loan officer is the most intro key of the situation. Because when you get all the way down to the closing, you know, we’re a figurehead sitting there at the table smiling because we close face to face in Georgia. But if something goes wrong, or like back in the day before everybody saw their numbers, you know, days before and things, something went wrong, and you couldn’t find that loan officer, you could kiss your referrals, goodbye, because that’s what they remember, you connected me with that person, I sat here, nobody answered the phone and there was a problem. So I cannot stress that enough to every agent, know who you’re working with, know that they’re available and know that what stands behind the company, is really what they say they’re going to do. And I said, you know, 2002 that’s been the mantra for me that that, you know, I give everybody always a second chance and things can happen. But you gotta gotta have you want that long term referral stream, because that’s how I run my business. And at the end of the day, if my partners aren’t there, it’s not gonna happen. That’s why I’m so picky.

Michael Chabot
And it is a partnership for sure. It is totally Richard. So yeah, Richard, can you share a couple of scenarios of some of your favorite examples? Or, you know, how you’ve helped what we call underserved borrowers?

Richard Staley
Yeah, I mean, I mean, there’s, I mean, I could give you again, the majority of the business lately, I mean, there’s, I mean, I’ll just give you a great example of I gave the the coffee, the person that had the online coffee business and, and we just recently closed alone, he wouldn’t think that a gym a gymnasium, they own two gyms here in Atlanta. And so when the pandemic hit even, you know, the kid there, their numbers went through the roof. And, you know, they were unable to secure financing. But again, there we did a bank statement loan on them, and their deposits came in and they bought their dream home, actually, the second home, they bought their dream home, down and down at the Georgia coast and, you know, was just ecstatic after exhausting, you know, five or six bank, big big box bank lenders. I can tell you have a Marybeth Bob earlier our asset based loan that we do, we find people every day that have great assets and they just pay to have them they keep them and but they are not earning much income because again, they have tremendous assets so they don’t need the income and we do it. We call it a asset qualifier long where we basically Look at their assets. And unlike other companies, they want you to transfer your assets to like an investment banker, we don’t transfer anything we said shown to us, we don’t we do a six month look back to make sure they didn’t win like the lottery or something like that. Because this is loans designed for people that can manage their money. And that is a tremendously popular loan. And again, we are market Mary Beth and I work we work in you know about hi in district of Atlanta, so we deal with a lot a lot of people in that space. So, I mean, we really have a solution for I mean, that’s why I think we get the calls is if you’ve Richard can’t do the loan Angel Oak, you can’t get a loan. I mean, that’s kind of the theory they have, at least at least we have embedded in the city, but oh, all over the board. We help people get into the home.

Michael Chabot
I love it. I love it. Alright, so Mary Beth, I’m putting you on the spot here. How has Richard being at Angel Oak saved a deal for a client maybe that you didn’t think could get done? Or maybe rephrase it? Has there been a deal that you didn’t think was gonna get done? And he somehow got it done for you?

Marybeth Henderson
Yeah, there was. Now there have been multiple. But this one happened to be a very, very dear friend. And a lot of life things had happened. And she had waited several years to be able to purchase a home. And the company that she worked for, had an affiliation with one of the large banks, and everything was considered a slam dunk, no issues, no issues, no problem, etc, etc. So we have now passed every timeline, every contingency had large amount of earnest money down and get the call, can’t do the loan. At which point, like I said, a lot of things had happened in the background. And I have known this person since I was 18 years old. And it was just heart wrenching. I mean, I thought literally, it’s one of those cases where I thought I was going to fall on the ground myself. And I was like, okay, 54321 What are we gonna do? So picked up the phone, I think about 830 at night, Richard answered the phone, and client called him and he was like, Oh, this no problem. Boom, boom, boom, had it done. She is now in her dream house. And it just could that that one alone, just it was a nail biter and just the heartbreak and the disappointment. And literally, I was on the phone with her till midnight that night, she kept saying, Are you sure? Are you sure? Because the other one says no. And he says, Yes, I was like, listen, just got to trust him. He can do it. We and we closed it in 10 days.

Richard Staley
Yeah, and I don’t think you even notice. But a great backdrop of that story is that we earned a customer for life. And I’ve talked to her many times, we just refinanced her two months ago, and cut her rate in half because she had gone through a, a credit credit issue in her in her past and that had to healed. And so she is ecstatic. And she and and so that is one way we took this person that was really broken at the time that she got the rejection from the bank. And yeah, and And today, she’s our one of our biggest cheerleaders.

Michael Chabot
Yeah. And isn’t it? And I’m going to ask this to both of you guys. And it’s a statement and a question. Isn’t it wonderful? When you have somebody who all of a sudden thinks they’re buying a home, then they’re told no, they’re distraught, completely stressed out? Don’t know what they’re gonna do. And then you have an opportunity to come in and help them realize that dream? Right?

Marybeth Henderson
Yeah. Truly, and especially in this case, you know, from knowing this person since I’m 18 years old, all it just was amazing. Yeah, we were sorority sisters. And yeah, so it’s awesome to be able to do that. Yeah. It’s great.

Michael Chabot
That’s a That’s a great story. Alright, so I have a question that I’m going to ask to both of you and we’ll let ladies go first. So what advice would you give to another realtor? This is for you. Marybeth, what advice would you give to another realtor trying to set themselves apart and grow their business in today’s market?

Marybeth Henderson
Ah, a couple things. Number one, invest in yourself you literally have to invest in yourself don’t get caught up in running around at every shiny object but invest in skills because skills really do pay the bills. Everything from you know what speaks to you personally what speaks to you professionally get a solid foundation under you get a coach if you think you can afford one I bet you can cut out some extra things get a business coach and know your market know your market from your stats to you know what communities you want to serve. And then you know in in grosser yourself in it you know, get get involved. If you if you work in your passion for business comes so I tell them People that a lot, find the passion, and then it exudes from you. And then when they learn about you, they’re going to want to work with you. But you do have to keep yourself ahead of everything. So invest, invest, invest, and your time, your energy, your talents, and take care of yourself.

Michael Chabot
I love it. That’s a great answer. So to Richard, what advice would you give to another loan officer trying to set themselves apart and grow their business in today’s market?

Richard Staley
Ron? Um, no, I think it goes back to what I said earlier. I mean, you know, we have actually, we have a young gentlemen joining our team. And in so, you know, do you want to be like everyone else that just has the widget? And, and or do you want to be spectacular, and I think Marybeth, hit it on the nose. I mean, we were always, at least, me and Mary Beth are trying to improve ourselves trying to learn the best, you have to separate yourself from the pack. And the good thing is, we have those tools here. So it’s built in our organization. But you also and she said it, I think four or five times out, you got to call back. You know, you got to be available, you got to return phone calls, it’s to this day, I still get an even agents that are on maybe on the listing side, not referring to the business, and says, Well, thank you so much for calling me back. All right, why wouldn’t I call you back? You call me right? And so on. And so I think that is a you know, it’s it’s, it’s, it’s the personal touch. I think we’ve all Why Not we but the industry has lost. And, you know, I say, you know, as I said, we say yes, fast they know faster, and be reliable. If you don’t know the answer, which is a big part of our industry today is so over regulated. And so over a guideline driven, I mean, this, the littlest thing can can can turn the deal bad. So you have your power, knowledge is power. So you have to constantly educate, train, update coach to marry best point. And when I started, first thing I did is I picked I picked up the book found the top 10 people in the city. And I said, my name is Richard steely. You probably don’t know me, I know you are the number one guy in the city or gal in the city. Can I buy you a cup of coffee? So you can tell me how great you are? You’d be surprised how many people will take that up to talk about. And that’s how I that’s how I broke in. I mean, that’s a true story. So it’s just, you know, I always say to our team, you know, we’re not here to be average, we’re here to be exceptional. And if you want to be average, that’s cool. There’s a lot of people average, there’s nothing wrong with it. But that’s not where I want to be our team be. So that’s I would just, you know, I would just, you know, go go for the two for the moon. Shoot for the stars.

Michael Chabot
I love that answer? That’s great.

Marybeth Henderson
One other thing, One other thingto add to that, and that is just to listen, because there’s always a need. So listen, and how can you serve and fulfill that need, because again, it goes back to the smallest of things. But you know, and I can give you an example. A couple years ago, a client moved in, and they accidentally when they were doing some di d y repairs that very first weekend, oops, I caused a little bit of a water leak in their house. And so I immediately had mops, paper towels, buckets, and Shopback sent over you know, I called Home Depot had somebody pick it up and dropped it off. And believe me raving fans were created just by listening for that little bitty need. They couldn’t believe it. So listen to the need.

Michael Chabot
Well, and that’s it listened to the need. And it’s also go the extra mile for your clients what you did there, right, like I know, as a consumer, any of us listening to this or even involved in this. If we were on their side, and you did that for us, we would tell everybody about it. Oh my god. You know what Mary Beth did? This is what she did for us. Yeah, right. It’s just going.

Marybeth Henderson
I felt terrible that happened to him.

Michael Chabot
Wait, that’s a great story. All right. So next question for both of you is what advice would you give to a homebuyer who is concerned about inventory and the challenges in today’s competitive market? And I think we’ve addressed it a little bit already. But I know I’m gonna say this and then Mary Beth, we’ll start with you. A lot of clients that I hear as homebuyers say, I’m going to sit on the sidelines and wait it out. Do you think that’s good advice or bad advice?

Marybeth Henderson
I usually say bad advice. And I just use the example the other day Richard’s broken out for me very well. You know, just numbers of if you buy it at this at today’s interest rates, which I know we can’t talk about, but or you wait two years and then we’re looking at that you’re getting much less of a home. Now I tell them you know, you don’t need to do anything rash. If it isn’t what you want and it does you’re not comfortable with it, then we’re it’s not the right thing, but I don’t generally think they should wait. Because I also am not a huge proponent of paying somebody else’s mortgages, what they’re doing if they’re coming to me from a rental standpoint. So I usually say go for it, if it fits what you really need and want. And most of them live in the payment. Right? So anyway, half

Michael Chabot
of the question. Yeah. So the first half of the question, actually, and I apologize, I kind of gave you two questions there. What would you what advice would you give to a homebuyer who’s concerned about inventory? And the challenges, I know it’s kind of the same, but a little different?

Marybeth Henderson
Well, it is kind of the same, but it is also different. And what I have told everybody, we have spent a lot of time this year, trying to make sure everybody understands, I mean, yes, inventory has been historically low, but there are still houses. And there are people that win the contracts, and nine times out of 10, if you don’t get the first x ones, the one you finally get really is the one that you wanted, most of all, so I had not had one, I had one couple that wrote 29 offers. So we finally got the right one, and the right one ended up being the best choice for the whole scenario. So don’t get discouraged. You know, inventory is going to come on and just have yourself prepared, you got to be willing to be fluid. And again, you know, let’s let’s get that inspection done. Let’s have that loan, you know, ready to roll. So we can close quickly. And, you know, not waiting around with delays and make are often the strongest. So I don’t think it’s a big panic situation. I haven’t the whole time, the right ones there.

Michael Chabot
I’ll go to you and ask Richard all ask you is in that part of the question I talked about with waiting, when when a client comes to you and says I’m going to wait, and I know that Mary Beth kind of hinted to it talk a little bit more about how you show them that sometimes waiting, as interest rates creep up, it becomes more expensive, even if we get price reductions in the market.

Richard Staley
Yeah, and when we have tools to show them the difference between renting today versus owning, and, you know, if rates go up, you know, 100 basis points, you know, what, what does that do to your position from, you know, from a waiter state period, you know, it’s usually when the clients over over to me, you know, they’re Mary Beth has done her homework. I mean, she’s done all the due diligence, like she just discussed. And, and then, you know, it’s really about, you know, rates are obviously a key factor in the conversation, but it’s also about the experience. And we tell these, especially as first time homebuyers is, you know, and I think what lenders do wrong in our world today is their, you know, they don’t marry best said, and a couple of times, they don’t listen, and they don’t give the people the time to understand what the process is a mortgage is a complicated process, even if you’ve done it a couple times. And it just got worse, since all these pandemic rigs came into involved with Fannie and Freddie changing them honest. And, Michael, you love that as well. But, but but I just say, hey, here’s what you got to think about, you got to think about your costs today. And what it costs in a year can be based upon the forecasting of where rates may lie, and what value appreciation may look like, and and so long, it’s really, uh, you know, once you kind of give them the facts, it’s, it’s not a hard decision for them to stay in the market.

Michael Chabot
Agreed.

Marybeth Henderson
It’s also a mode, you can you can answer that emotionally as well. You know, sometimes I say, No, because they’ll tell me how miserable they are. Okay, well, how, you know, if you wait, and you stay in this miserable place that you don’t like living? What’s the cost of that? So sometimes, you know, that makes a difference to

Michael Chabot
Yeah. No, that’s great. So Mary Beth, back to you again. So I know we’ve touched on it, but again, just break it down for us. So what is important to you, when evaluating choosing a lender partner, and I know you’ve talked about it, but let’s break it down a little bit more, you know, when you chose to do business with Richard, and then the second half of the question is, and why do you think this is important to your clients slash buyers?

Marybeth Henderson
Okay. One thing that I like that Angel Oak really does is it’s very systemized. So at any point in time, I know what’s going on, and the other agent does and so does the buyer. So I love that the systems are in place. So the number one thing I look for is trustworthy. Will they answer their phone? Do they return emails? Is there a team in place? You know, what happens if I need something quickly? And I again, the computerized systemization that Angel Oak has is just phenomenal. So we have just found it so streamlined because again, this is something that I teach the agents that work for me, the number one problem that you have as an agent You cannot be babysitting a file, you’re literally cannot. So the minute that we’re under contract, it’s handed off to Angel Oak. And no joke. I mean, Richard will tell you, I’m not even involved, unless there’s something that I need to know, I am not involved, because I’m out focusing on other business and getting new business, because by the time we’re to that point, you know, my parts done. And so I love how the team keeps me updated. If I need to know, and how I could just, you know, go online every morning, look, see where we are in the process, boom, we’re done. So I look for all of those, you know, competency, systems, trustworthy? And how available, are they? That those are my top things that I look for? And Angel Oak hits all those?

Michael Chabot
And so why do you think that’s important? So I know, we talked about this, but let’s drill down on it. And just, which is why it’s important for you, as a real estate agent, to have partnered with a trustworthy professional service oriented lender that you know, is going to deliver. I mean,

Marybeth Henderson
the number one thing is because I run my business off of referrals. So if the ball has dropped on who I have referred, it’s done. If there are hiccups along the way, and and even, you know, coming down to the attorney level a few weeks ago, I literally was slammed with out of town clients. And behind the scenes, the Angel Oak team is helping making sure the packages for the lender, they were my clients, you know, call them instead of me answering and they’re like, Hey, wait, let us pick up the phone and find out and orchestrate all this. So it’s just, you want the that repeat business, I’m in this for a career, it’s a profession for me, not not anything part time. So I’ve got to have that strong team behind me. And then again, I’m focusing on you know, I’m three months out already. So the deals that he’s doing now, you know, I can’t be babysitting him, or I’m not going to have a good first quarter. So that that’s it. That’s the repeat referral business and just knowing that people are taking care of.

Michael Chabot
Yep, yeah, I agree. And, you know, you, you, you touched on something really important, which is, I tell everybody, if you’re in sales, you have to be a farmer, right? You have to literally be a farmer, which means you have to be prospecting, planting seeds cultivating right? You have to be nourishing those seeds and making sure and then you have to harvest. And if you don’t continue that cycle, like you’re talking, and you don’t have good partners that help you do that. You’ll wake up at the end of, you know, the month or the quarter and say, Where’s my next, you know, client’s coming from who can I help next, right?

Marybeth Henderson
yeah, exactly. And there shouldn’t be any reason for the agent to babysit the process.

Michael Chabot
Exactly, exactly. So I’m going to ask this to Richard first, and then I’ll go back to Mary Beth. So Richard, what has been your biggest challenge in the marketplace in 2021, thus far?

Richard Staley
That’s easy. appraisals. I mean, we, you know, we’ve, you know, Marybeth brought up earlier, she doesn’t allow her clients to waive all the contingencies. And she’s very unique. Because most everybody I talked to does, and they encourage their customer, so I, I’m, I’m wide open, I know, cuz I pull it up and look at it online. So Oh, my gosh, they paid you know, 50,000 more than it was listed for and I tell them upfront, I say hey, what’s really the one hurdle we got across and that’s just making sure we get the value for your home. And you know, that comes in LO the options are as follows. Number one, if you have a contingency or if you don’t, there’s you know, either you pay the difference out of your pocket or you go back to negotiate with the seller, most the market has been on fire. I mean, I’m talking we had a four and a half million dollar home had like 12 offers, you’re going what? And I mean, it is just in so and then demerit best point on the other extreme, our friend of ours, it had 20 offers was $200,000. So um, but it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s appraisals, I mean, it is, you know, I look back and then in 2008, mortgage crisis, you know, appraisers really, the lender was the customer. Today, appraisers are they can’t, no lenders can have any interaction, nothing, it’s all regulated. And they really just kind of run run at their own pace. And, you know, they’re they just don’t really there’s no customer service factor in there at all. I mean, at all. And, and so, yeah, I’d say the biggest challenge I have I have, there’s just no there’s no in our world in the mortgage world we have to abide by a rule set by Fannie Freddie and of course our non QM muscle we know what the rules are we got a you don’t follow them you don’t get along. In my building in this my opinion only in their world. They just, you know, one guy will do this thing and one person will do this thing and and especially when you’re doing two appraisals on a property, and that’s mostly due to the higher loan sizes. I don’t think I’ve had one this year, where they have both come in, you know, within 10% of each value, same in, they may even have the same comps, and they still don’t come in. And I’m like going, how’s that possible? So that’s our biggest challenge today. Now, I know Mary, best point, she said earlier, she’s right, you’re seeing you’re not seeing 12 contracts, you may be seeing four. So we’re seeing that, that shift. And I’m also seeing the contingencies in the contracts. The the issue we see is that, you know, the seller says, Okay, I’ll give you 10 days to get an appraisal. And you’re at the mercy of the appraiser, even though you pay for it, you know, you’ve ordered it, even though they’ve told you, we’ll have it in 10 days. And it’s the 10th day and you know, they had a flat tire they’ll get to in a couple more days. So that that’s that’s been the number one challenge.

Michael Chabot
Yeah, I agree with you. That’s been my number one challenge as well. I think it’s a nationwide thing. I’ve heard their shortages of appraisers coming into the market. And yeah, they they just kind of do their own thing. And it’s definitely been a challenge. Great answer, by the way. So back to Mary Beth, which is what has been your biggest challenge in the real estate market thus far in 2021?

Marybeth Henderson
Well, I’m gonna give you three, one lack of inventory, and two appraisals. So we’ve discussed that. But no joke. This is probably going to surprise everybody when I say it. The lack of professionalism, by realtors? Absolutely. We have seen some of the most unprofessional behavior. It’s mind blowing, and I can’t even fathom it, that it is somebody representing somebody or that they’ve even allowed somebody to represent them that behaves this way. And it’s definitely been a challenge. I mean, pulling your hair out challenge. I just been crazy. So I just all my associates, please, you know, behave professionally and ethically in the right manner. Because well

Richard Staley
that is that is so true. I can tell in one email or one phone call. If this is a new if this is a agent you’re referring to. Or if this is a professional. I mean, it is like 10 seconds. I’m like, Okay, this is what we’re dealing with on this transaction. So 100% agree with you.

Marybeth Henderson
Yeah, because everything is crazy. You I’ve seen happen. Yeah. And if you work together as a team, no matter what challenge you face, works, this is not a life or death situation. I mean, I know to the buyers and sellers, it feels like it. But if you work as a team, and remain level headed, it all gets to the finish line.

Michael Chabot
Then I would add that, and I know you both would agree, is that when you’re working with agents on both sides of the transaction, a title company, I think you guys use attorneys in your state, correct. When you’re working with everybody that that works as a team, like you said, Mary Beth, and his professional, it’s really a pleasurable experience.

Marybeth Henderson
It is, it truly is.

Michael Chabot
When you have one cog of the wheel that’s off, it can become a really unpleasurable experience really fast.

Marybeth Henderson
Yeah, for everybody. And it shouldn’t be that way. It shouldn’t. Yeah, I can I tell you one funny story. All right. Please say one funny thing. Okay. So I have a listing this spring, that was a super hot one. And the first agent that showed it, we had 17 showings that day. And the first agent that showed it conveniently took the key to the house because they added a lockbox, I’m left with it, because they didn’t want anybody else to see it before they could write an offer that went over well.

Michael Chabot
That’s crazy.

Marybeth Henderson
It was crazy. I told you.

Michael Chabot
Wow. Wow. I mean, it has been a crazy market. I been in the business a long time also. And I’ve I have never seen the things that I’ve seen over the last however many months in this market. So in talking about that. So Richard, I’ll go back to you. Where do you see the market going? Next year in 2022?

Richard Staley
Well, again, Angel Oak is a our sister company is a big hedge fund. So they have all these really really smart people that we host a meeting every Monday morning. And I sit in I sit in religiously on even though I’m a lender, not a capital market person hedge fund stuff. And they give us their kind of their their forecast of what’s going on. I mean, the big thing is course we do think rates are will climb as we have seen already the you know, they think they said it in one of the meetings recently. The party’s over. That, you know we’re going to start to move our way up on the interstates which is fine. We’re still historically low interest rates and again it goes back to the educating The buyer, when I started, I was selling double digit rate interest rates, and we’re compared to where they sit today. So the rent rates are the big thing. And I and I get I’m telling this appraisal thing, I think it’s something we have to get under control, to make sure that we don’t have a another inflated market that comes back and haunts us, like it did in 2008. And so I think as, as more of our, our supply picks up, you know, the big issue about you’re talking about to get on these calls is, you know, the the forbearance things going away, and everybody now has to pay their loan. And everybody has been not paying mortgages, because they’ve been in forbearance for the last six months or whatever it’s been, and now they got to pay up, you know, the does that foreclosures into our market, thus changing the values changing the inventory? So I think that’s a that’s that’s to be to be determined for 2022. That is a game changer for us in our market. So I would say the big thing is that we look for is your inventory and you know, in these interest rates, but again, rates are magnificent still.

Michael Chabot
They are, that’s that’s a great answer. So now, Mary Beth, where do you see the market in 2022.

Marybeth Henderson
What I’d like to see in 2022, is I’d say kind of the theme of what we’re talking about, let’s let’s make sure the appraisals can hopefully maybe get a little in line, a little bit more inventory. And people just being able to feel like they’ve been made good decisions, not hasty decisions, because I am hearing a lot of people, especially my friends that are agents in California, where people bought last year, and now they’re regretting it. So just kind of a little bit more of a stable market.

Michael Chabot
Let me ask you one question that’s not on, on my sheet, Mary Beth is, why do you think there’s a there has been a lack of inventory?

Marybeth Henderson
Well, I’d say this year, we’ve been faced with a lot of our builders not being able to get the supplies. So that that was a huge thing, here, we had the lumber than we’ve had windows, then we’ve had a lot of rain, so we can’t pour foundation. So we’ve kind of had a storm there with that. And then prior to that, you know, just the pent up demand. And then when we had great rates that it already had started. And then once the pandemic hit, we really had a lot of people wanting to move. So I’d say all of those.

Michael Chabot
I would agree, I think people spent so much. People spend so much time in their homes, they were like, Alright, I want to get the things that I have always dreamed I want now’s the time, right?

Marybeth Henderson
Yes. And the interest rates were so great that it really made sense.

Richard Staley
Yeah, and I think and Michael, I mean, you know, Fannie Mae release that, you know, their inventory, their inventory on investor properties is way above their cap. They don’t want the these many loans on their books. So they’re making adjustments for pricing and stuff like that for consumers. And then Fannie Mae releases that, you know, second home, pre pandemic, versus pandemic post is up 100% People are going to the mountain to the lake, and, you know, to wherever, whatever to go work out of the house now versus driving into the city and dealing with all that. So it’s really changed the dynamics of a homeowner. I mean, it really has and 100 people renting houses putting an office in their house now and stuff like that. So we just have a different with a different model today than we did prior to 2019.

Michael Chabot
Yeah, I agree. Well, I’m going to, we’re getting to the end of our time flies, believe it or not, I mean, we’re we’re just about to end here. And you guys have both been been wonderful today, some great information. And I thank you. And I think what I would say to you both is what you’ve shown is why it’s so important to partner in this business as far as an agent and a lender, and why it’s so important in a transaction for a homebuyer. Richard, I’ll let you kind of wrap up your thoughts on that?

Richard Staley
Well, I think you need to anyway, lender role or you just need to decide what kind of business you want to run. I mean, it’s simple. Do you want to do one or two deals, your friends and your family deals and be a real estate agent? Or are your lender Do you want to do a couple of deals a month so I think having a business partner like Mary Beth and I have we go back and we go back high school that’s how far we go back. And I just want to work with you want professional people I think the benefit of what we do today is the consumer wins. And because from her side to my side, we are taking them from A to Z and you know, we’re not leaving them, leaving them out there where you know some lenders will just talk to one second, put them in the pipeline, and then they disappear. We just don’t do that. So, yeah. Yeah, I would say the benefit we have is for homeowners is work with some professionals and the results will will be great.

Michael Chabot
Yeah. And Mary Beth, we’ll get your final thoughts on that. And then we’ll let you get to your busy day.

Marybeth Henderson
Yeah, it is true. I’m gonna go write a contract and Richards doing the loan? No, it is very, very true. Just working with a professional, and then after, before, during, and after, and then you know, both Richard and I don’t go away, we continue to serve our clients for years to come. And they, they pick up the phone and ask us anything. And that’s how we position ourselves is to, we’re there to help and to serve. And like he said, you know, my clients will call him and do refunds without me even knowing anything is going on.

Michael Chabot
Yeah, and I think to put a bow on that, it’s just it’s important to run your business like a business, it’s important to Yes, you know, provide the utmost level of service and care. And I think you both have said it and to serve, to serve your clients to serve your community. And if you do that, you can look yourself in the mirror and feel really good about yourself, you know, I’m the host serious, I don’t like to talk about my business. But a long time ago, I said, I want to make sure that when I see a client of mine in the supermarket or the hardware store, that I can look them in the eye and shake their hand and know that I did a great job for them. And I know and talking to you guys, it’s exactly how you run your businesses.

Richard Staley
Yeah, I’ll tell you a great statement I heard years ago was you if you put everybody first, you’ll never be second. And you have that kind of view on your business, then you’ll be just fine.

Michael Chabot
Yeah, well, I love it. Guys. I want to thank you for your time today. Thank you so much for sharing with us. And again, thank you guys for joining us on Your Mortgage Matters Podcast brought to you by Angel Oak Home Loans. Again, I’m your host, Michael Chabot, if you found any of this stuff, good guys, share it, like it, tell your friends about us put it on your social media, etc. We hope that we gave you something today. That helps you a little bit whether you’re a realtor, or a loan officer or a consumer who’s out there looking to buy or sell real estate. And we will have both of your contact information here in the show notes of anybody in your marketplace is looking for professional. They know where to find you. I want to say thank you again, guys for joining us.

Richard Staley
Thanks so much.

Marybeth Henderson
Thank you, really appreciate it.

Michael Chabot
My pleasure. We’ll talk to you guys soon.

Richard Staley
Bye bye.